Image courtesy of New Line Cinema |
Image courtesy of Michael Whelan |
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Kills
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Kills
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The man in white flees across the desert and the gunslinger follows.
Gandalf the White spurs his beautiful alabaster steed Shadowfax onward, glancing behind him at the figure on the horizon, dismayed that the distance between the two isn’t growing but decreasing. A piercing noise fills the air, causing Shadowfax to rear up, toss his rider, and bolt for the horizon.
“A thinny,” Roland thinks to himself. “Good Sai, what have you gotten us into?” Rusher slows down as Roland leaps from horseback, landing on his feet about twenty meters from his target. “What have you done with the boy?” he calls out to the wizard. “Did you use your foul magics to make Jake disappear?”
“Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks!” shouts Gandalf as he thrusts his staff forward. An invisible fist of energy slams into the gunslinger’s chest, knocking him backwards into a rock. Roland feels the warmth of blood as it drips out of the open wound on the back of his head. He coughs and spits more blood on the dusty ground. This is not good.
The action of his being thrown causes a cloud of dust to rise up around Roland, convenient as it hides the gunslinger as he reaches for his revolvers. Feeling the sandalwood grips of his forefathers’ guns, time slows to a crawl as the weapons are raised, straight and true. The sound of a gunshot momentarily drowns out the incessant droning of the thinny as Gandalf staggers backward.
“What new devilry is this?” the bearded wizard wonders aloud as the blood begins to spread on his white robe. Two more shots ring out across the dusty plain as Gandalf collapses in a billowing pile of white and red.
The thinny drones on and on, filling the air with an uncomfortable vibration. There are no more songs, no more returns for Gandalf; only the image of the green shores of Aman–the Undying Lands of the gods await him now.
Predicted Winner: Roland Deschain of Gilead
(Gandalf is a character from J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings; Roland Deschain is a character from Stephen King’s The Dark Tower series.)
Come on… If Gandalf is shot by Roland e will be “sent back” to continue the fight until he wins.
And then he returns as Gandalf the snowwhite or hyperwhite or whiter than white ?
It doesnt matter if he returns, hes still lost the fight, its too late by then. Roland will win, he is a more experienced killer even though Gandalf has lived for thousands of years.
I see no way how someone with a gun can beat a white wizard who slayed a belrog. I mean seriously?
Gandalf would laugh at him while his bullets bounced off his mind sheild and then he would be fried to a crisp.
Given the way the voting is going (Roland ahead at the time of this post), I think people are underestimating Gandalf the White. Even though there are no guns in Middle-Earth, Gandalf would have no trouble understanding what they are, and remember that light travels faster than bullets. It should take magic to beat Gandalf – the Balefire might be a problem, if he gets there.
Just because Gandalf never used potent killing ranged magic doesn’t mean that he couldn’t. He used the light of the Istari to turn back the several Nazgul chasing Faramir and the remnants of his men out of Osgiliath. Gandalf should win. Gandalf the White cannot be hurt, even if you have a gun made out of Excalibur. Aragorn had a sword made out of Narsil, and Gandalf told Aragon, Legolas and Gimli that none of them had a weapon that could hurt him. End of story.
I want everyone who voted for Roland to go into thier bathroom. I want them to look into the mirror and say: “I honestly believe that Roland from Stephen King’s Gunslinger books can kill Gandalf from JRR Tolkien’s LOTR triology.”
Repeat three times.
If you can sleep that night, Jimminy Cricket is coming for you. And not in a nice way.
On a related note: how do you think Pinocchio would do in the cage? I give him 10-1 odds at being turned into kindling.
For the record, guys, I was probably Roland’s most vocal supporter against Elric.
Difference here is I don’t think Gandalf can be killed by bullets.
I think that Roland has his own magic. He’s not just about bullets.
The gunslinger has a lot of tricks up his sleeve. And a lot of disposable friends to help him along the way.
And I think that a Roland vs. Kvothe fight could be just as interesting as a Gandalf vs. Aslan fight.
I won’t go so far as to say that Gandalf can’t be killed by bullets. His earthly incarnation would probably have trouble storming Iwo Jima by himself, which of course he wouldn’t do, because he would know better. However, I do agree that Gandalf can not be killed by the quantity of bullets that Roland would get off in this match before Gandalf negated his ability to fire in various ways (again blinding, heat metal, defenses against missile weapons, severing his arms at the shoulder with Glamdring, etc.) You need either well-articulated magic, or the quality of scenarios that is keeping Lannister and Kvothe in their respective races vs. insuperable odds, in order for Roland to win here.
The man in white fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
Gandalf glanced over his shoulder, looking for the man who followed him. He serves the same powers I serve, thought Gandalf, they just go by different names here. Looking ahead again, he saw a ring of trees on the horizon line. I’ll head there to make my stand.
Roland of Gilead, son of Steven, last of the line of Eld, watched the wizard flee into the circle. A grim smile stretched across his weathered face as he followed, knowing what he would find inside. It was an inhabited circle, an oracle spirit dwelt within. The old fool was in for a surprise.
When the gunslinger entered the grove, he saw Gandalf, flat on his back with his muddied robes hiked up around his waist. Gandalf was a little busy, and didn’t notice the son of Steven approaching. From there, it was too easy. Twelve bullets flew, so close together it sounded like a single report. Twelve bullets shattered the wizard’s skull.
“Go on, then, there are other worlds than these,” mused Roland.
Lochlan, a reasonable effort, I salute you. However, Gandalf has never shown any interest in romance. He’s too busy saving the world.
My apologies, Lochlan, the 4:59 post was from me, I had a dyslexic moment and typed your user name.
Travesty.
Congratulations to the winnner. How far can this glorified Bat Masterson go? Stay tuned and find out! Next up, Rand! I cannot wait to hear again how a bullet beats a squishy caster class as we relate unique fictional masterpieces to an MMO.
I apologize for my bitterness. Deschain is the MAN! Gratz d3wd!
WOO go on Roland!!!! Your all saying that Gandalf can be hurt by bullets and he will not be able to put up a shield! How can you put up a shield against something you’ve never seen before! Also Roland’s gun isn’t from Gandalf’s world so his magic will not affect it!
Citizen- with the oracle/spirit things, it isn’t really a matter of interest so much as a matter of necessity. Admittedly, Gandalf may be a higher order of spirit than the circle-dwellers, but even he would be at least temporarily subdued by the unseen ferocity with which he is attacked.
What’s the point of having people vote when the organizers just rig the numbers so they can get the matchups they want? This is worse than stupid and not even entertaining anymore. Ad the comment system SUCKS. Goodbye.
Lochlan, ok, I don’t know of these spirits, but it’s moot. Can we start establishing that Rand’s weaves are impermeable to bullets? Not saying there’s no way for Roland to win, but no bullets if Rand has his defenses up.
It’s common knowledge that Rand doesn’t know what’s going on around him half the time, because he’s too busy being driven insane by a crazy dead dude living in his head.
While I don’t buy that Conan would be too busy wooing Rand’s women to actually do something, I KNOW that Roland would shoot first ask questions later.
I foresee Rand getting a bullet in the head before he can finish the first sentence of the conversation in his head with Lews Therrin.
If Roland and his guns can get Rand and his balefire out of the way, the last fights might be determined by things other than god-like abilities.
Roland is awesome, and he might even have a chance at hitting Gandalf in the middle of a pitched battle.
But Gandalf is not human. He is bigger, faster, and stronger than a human. Also, he has powers that go along with that. He is not so easy to kill as people would think. A mere physical injury would not cut the mustard.
That said, Roland is fast and determined. I just think in this case, he’s toast. The bullets would never touch Gandalf, but if they did I’m sure they wouldn’t stop him. And while Roland’s knife might just be good steel it’s not forged by the Noldor. The Foe Hammer would shatter that knife and those sandalwood griped pistols with one blow.
Sorry you feel that way, but, in all honesty, none of us have enough time to rig these matches, let alone would want to.
This is the most absurd voting so far. What next?
“No, Roland’s totally fast enough to fire before Cthulhu can send him mad! Or crush him like a bug! And two bullets will put Cthulu down!”
“Rolands bullets totally kill the moving-outside-of-time-metal-killing-machine that is the Shrike!”
Roland’s incredibly fast, but he’s just a guy with a gun (well, two guns). He has no ability to even hurt the likes of Gandalf, Cthulhu, the Shrike or Rand.
(If Anduril can’t hurt Gandalf, per the meeting in Fangorn, I think it’s fair to say that bullets – even fired from excalbur guns – won’t do much!).
Don’t get me wrong, Roland’s a cool character, and I enjoyed the Dark Tower books. But this absurd fanboi-ism just makes a mockery of the whole concept.
Vote plausibly, or don’t vote at all.
I am ashamed of the community. I love Roland….even thought he could take out Elric…but Gandalf? Seriously?
It goes against my better judgment to actually get actively involved in any on-line debate forum, and I have never done so. I always just assume that my words will be swallowed into the dismissive and combative void that tends to epitomize Internet discussions. That being said, I thought I would weigh in with a few comments and see how things go this one time… =)
First is an overarching point: this fantasy battle royale is very specifically a cage match, or so I was led to believe from the sparse rules that outlined this event. I think the fluff that Suduvu is writing is ultimately doing a bit of a disservice, because very few of the official fanfic matches are in the context of a cage match.
To me, a cage match assumes a few things (but sadly, only a few things). One is that the contestants are in an enclosed, pre-determined fighting arena of some sort. Another is that the contestants are made aware of the fact that they are going to face another opponent in a fight to the death – or at the very least, a fight to the point where one party is rendered completely unable to fight anymore, which is frequently death.
Beyond that, a cage match would have certain rules; these rules are missing, which I personally think is a mistake. I’m sure the fine people of Suduvu left out specific rules on purpose, to encourage lively debate about characters from the community, but I feel that people will be able to come up with lively debate no matter HOW precise the rules are. Specific rules do help quantify parameters that people are desperately trying to quantify, however. Some rules I would absolutely love to be defined:
1. How much does each contestant know about the other opponent? Are they allowed, say, three days research ahead of time? Do they just find out about their opponent based on what they can surmise when they get into the ring?
2. Can they get any help (be it advice or weaponry/defenses) from allies in their series of books?
3. Are the contestants able to erect defenses (especially magical defenses) before the battle, or does everyone have to start the fight “unbuffed” and with weapons sheathed?
4. How large, specifically, is the arena they are fighting in? Or does the arena change size and shape depending on the match up?
5. How far away do the contestants start off from each other?
I could probably list more, but I feel that at the very least, defining these 5 questions would save a lot of fruitless debate. These are IMPORTANT questions (well, not in the grand scheme of things, but in the context of coming to a conclusion in these match-ups), and are going to inform the outcome of battles pretty drastically. Characters who are prone to planning and scheming get a definite boost if research is allowed before the match, for example.
In many of these fights, that’s what a lot of arguments are about: “Well, if X knows all about Y, he’ll do Z action and win it!” or “X has the magical defenses to stop Y!” Again, I realize that Suduvu probably wants to encourage these very debates, but I feel like people would still be able to come up with plausible and compelling reasons how underdogs could still win without resorting to some long and convoluted plan of machinations before the match. This also means that, say, it would be harder to argue against Cthulu, but I think most of us can agree that perhaps Cthulu shouldn’t, I don’t know, be on the freaking list?
As to the Roland/Gandalf debate, I don’t understand why some people are getting so incredibly angry. Well, I mean I guess I do, people get angry at anything on the Internet. But I personally was excited about the fight when I first saw it. Gandalf is awesome, Roland is awesome. I assumed the Tolkien fans would just steamroll over the much less read-about Roland, and am quite surprised he didn’t.
However, what I don’t get is several of the posts of people saying it’s a complete farce, that they are beyond disgusted that Gandalf would lose and Roland could win, and that they doubt that people who could vote that way were in any way functionally human beings. Perhaps some manner of lesser ape, certainly a mammal of some sort, but no rational, self-aware human could think Roland would beat Gandalf the White, and they’re so disgusted they just want to die.
Look, I have read both series of books, and love both series of books. Gandalf is unquestionably a being that surpasses Roland on, say, the evolutionary scale. And admittedly, it has been over a decade since I read Tolkien’s opus, and 6 or so years since I read about Roland’s trials, so I could be forgetful of some important details. But I always got the impression that Gandalf was not, say, immune getting hurt from crude, barbaric means. Sure, he tangled with a Balrog in an epic three-day battle, and then he kinda-sorta died but came back in a nebulous fashion later (sent back to finish his quest, I know). But, I always got the impression that, cloaked as he was in the old-guy suit he was forced to wear, he had the limitations of the old-guy suit he was forced to wear. If an Uruk-Hai managed to slam him between the ribs with an axe, I always got the impression he would *die* from said axe-swipe. He would come back later, probably, new and improved and even more intimidating, but he always struck me as flesh-and-blood with ill-defined magic.
And that’s really what fights with Roland come down too, since he’s written as being so supernaturally fast. The scenarios you can beat him in are:
1. You disarm him before fighting starts
2. You trick him before fighting starts
3. You cast a spell on him before fighting starts
4. You are faster than him
5. You can do something that nullifies his speed
6. You are immune to bullets naturally
Now, since this is a cage match, Roland gets a decided advantage in scenarios 1, 2, and 3, since as soon as the bell rings or the announcer finishes saying, “… ruuuuuummmmbbbbbllllleeeee!”, he knows it’s going to be a fight and he’s drawn his guns and has shot you in the head, heart, and crotch like 30 times. Very few literary characters are as fast as he’s written (I don’t know, on this list maybe Drizzt is?). The Shrike would certainly nullify his speed by stopping time (as well as probably being immune to bullets), Cthulu is certainly immune to bullets, etc.
But in the context of the set-up, this is a type of match-up Roland has a bit of an advantage in. If wizards (Rand, Raistlin, etc.) are allowed to erect magical shields before the fight begins, they are essentially bulletproof and Roland is done. If they have to wait for the bell to ring or whatever to protect themselves, then Roland will almost assuredly beat them.
People have made the argument that Gandalf would in fact be bulletproof, and I don’t know, perhaps that’s accurate. If he is, then yes, Roland loses this handily. I didn’t necessarily think he was, I thought the vessel that the spirit was able to inhabit was little more than a man, and as such, could be killed by boring old steel. In which case, Roland at least has a shot, and I don’t think it’s so utterly ridiculous to make an argument for Roland winning.
Really? I’m sorry, was Gandalf asleep? Because if not, WTF?
I call BS! There is no way in the nine circles of Hell that Roland Dechaine would defeat Gandalf.
Whoa…whoa, guys. I voted for Gandalf too, but don’t go all crazy about it. Maybe Roland could’ve pulled it off. We don’t know. Let’s just say the Excalibur gun did work, and Gandalf’ll be coming back as Gandalf the Platinum Shiny or something. Yes. After the tournament is over, he’ll be waiting to settle the score. xD
“Roland burst into the highest room in the dark tower, to find his eyes dazzled by…the terrible wizard of that (oddly non sequitur) tournament he had encountered somewhere between books! Except this time, the old man appeared clad, head to toe, in kevlar body armor.
The platinum shiny staff’s head began to glow with an ominous light.
‘No!’ roared Roland, blazing away ineffectually, face a mask of panic. ‘You wouldn’t! You can’t!’
He did. The Dark Tower’s top level was blown to smoky rubble by the ensuing blast, and all that was left of the Gunslinger was a fluttering piece of a no-color shirt, flipping end over end on the gentle breeze down to the field of roses.
Then, of course, all time fell apart, but hey, Gandalf showed that little cowboy a thing or two.”
Remember that Gandalf blocked a balrogs sword. Somehow I think that a few bullets wouldn’t be a problem, especially now as he’s Gandalf the White.
Mods/Admins, any chance of checking whether the number of different IPs visiting this page is close to the vote count?
My god… most of you don’t have the basis!!
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Gandalf is actually a god incarnated!! He’s a Maiar one of the grater beings!! He doesn’t use the full extent of his powers because he was sent on Earth to counsel and guide, not to rule!
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He could have destroyed all the Mordor armies with half a thought… He was actually on par with Sauron (a Maiar himself)!!
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Roland is cool, but not a chance he could win this one.
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Cheers
Not a matter of rigging probably, but I have to say that there is something statistically strange. Last time I checked it was 7k votes and Gandalf was winning 70% 30%. You don’t go from 70% 30% to 50% 50% with the last half of the votes, if the votes are in the thousands. It would means that, assuming the number of votes per hour for Gandalf wasn’t changed, the votes for the Gunslinger was arriving 500% faster then before. It’s not something that can happen as a statistical fluctuation.
Two options: link to a community of King’s fans or it’s cheating. Not your rig of course, but some user voting multiple times. I haven’t checked how easy it is, but it seems quite sure.
Im disapointed of you,fellow fantasioneers.
for being blinded by the one and falling into the darkness.
for not seeing the logic tnd acting out of purely unjust,corrupted anddestructive urge.
It’s pretty easy to vote multiple times. I won’t disclose the method, but it’s only a few clicks in any browser, and you can vote again.
Are you kidding me? Gandalf loses to a Gunslinger? You all are killing me!
I love it when Gandalf fanboys cry about fanboyism. The reality is this contest is run through votes and is therefore about the popularity of characters. Besides, Gandalf is not the end all be all in fantasy. I’m so tired of Tolkien and his characters (as wonderful as they are) being held up on an untouchable pedestal of holiness. Move on.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot…Deschain forever! Long live the Affiliation! Down with the Good Man! It’s Ka. Don’t fight it.
You assume that Roland is faster than “wizards” like Rand or Raistlin. Not so… I’m not sure if you have read Wheel of Time, but there is no casting time for magic there, the weaves works literally at the speed of thought. and in Rand’s case his first action in a caged deathmatch would not be defensive, it would be an instantaneous obliterating offensive.
The amount of time it takes for Roland to draw his sixguns, however blindingly fast King describes it, is not as fast as someone thinking you dead.